Digital Television Transition, Analog, Over The Air, And FTA Discussion (Part II)
By nighthawk • Mar 17th, 2008 • Category: ArticlesThis thread is a continuation from the original Digital Television Discussion (which can be found here).
A lot of people, including myself, still have questions about this whole Digital Television Transition.
Hopefully this thread will continue to help us make it through the transition from analog to digital without too much pain.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:57 am
CBS: Multicasting Hurts HD Picture Quality
Network senior VP says it has no control over how the signal is transmitted.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/cbs020207.htm
March 19th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Colin Powell’s son left the FCC when he saw the writting on the wall for some of the outrages in the works on DTV…
Folks, people don’t leave government positions when things are going well; they leave when the place is in chaos. When it comes to the Digital TV switch, nobody wants to be the next Mike “Brownie” Brown.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you think Digital TV transition is in trouble? — Edward S.
Oh, do I ever. At this point, there are probably at least 15 million homes that would lose their TV signals if the transition happened today. (The switch takes place on February 17, 2009.) That’s a lot of people who need to get those digital converter boxes or new Digital TVs between now and then. And that’s a lot of people who still are not aware that the transition will even happen next year.
To make matters worse, the federal government, which is supervising the switch, is completely disorganized and seemingly clueless about how to educate Americans about the transition. Just a few days ago, yet another person in charge of the federal agency overseeing the transition quit her post; that’s two people who have left that position in a matter of weeks…
http://www.tvpredictions.com/swanniask030208.htm
March 19th, 2008 at 11:33 am
I would recommend that the Analog shutdown were more gradualised IF I were FCC chief (dont want that one fer shure) ; Full Power stations could start by reducing the power of their Xmitters back to say 75% the first 6months then to 50 percent the next 12months and lastly taking a survey for who still watches and then reduction to Low Power levels of say 20% for the mostly urban areas they serve for another 12months or IF they can show that less than say 15% of their over the air viewers(15% of total TVhomes supposedly) get the analog signal they could announce the shutdown of the signal.
PERHAPS by then the tuners(and preamps) will be
better at error corrections and noice/mutipath filtering, better program guides and lower costs.
PERHAPS by then they could shut off completly and the DTV encoders costs would be reduced so that other LPTV community TV stations could go digital with type excepted equipment rather than getting second had used stuff from the Full power stations as theirs is upgraded (or the suggested piggy backing on secondary full power signals).
(ONE station in Alaska bought their stuff off EBAY! and applied for FCC exemptions as it was not “type accepted” for the “PSIP” data)
March 19th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I could have said it better but i haint:
My experience thus far is that DTV requires stable signals or reception will break up. That means trees and antenna mounts whipping on windy days will spoil reception, as will reflection off people walking near an indoor antenna. Thus, a stable mount is needed as far from moving objects such as trees as possible. A good path toward the transmitter will always help.
If I had to install an antenna for DTV, I’d use a standard all band with rotator, same as analog. You can find pictures of my installation on this WWW site . Be warned. If your antenna points the wrong way, the signal doesn’t just fuzz as in Analog. The signal is lost completely. As various stations in Anchorage plan DTV operations from various transmitter sites, some on VHF and some on UHF, a rotator will be required, and you will need an ALL BAND antenna, unless, of course, you don’t want to get all channels . . .
http://www.kyes.com/dtv/
(I just need to find the time to set my tower up, got evar thang sept the rotator wire)
March 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Those dang buckeyes got trouble too even over flat land eh?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-136336-p-15.html
If you have not used OTA before, and have spent your entire life watching/using “cable” instead …. simple(but often important) things those of us who have been using OTA for decades and take for granted can be very unfamilar, and it is certianly understandable it might *seem* complicated, therefore why not explain what they are and what they do? Such as VHF and or UHF antennas, connectors which can allow you to “extend” the amount of feedline for your antenna, matching transformers, 300 ohm twinlead, 75 ohm coax, VHF/UHF combiners, Multipath, signal attenuation issues, directional antennas, yagis, rotors, signal loss or impedance mismathes from feedline or components in between the antenna+tuner input — By the way, in most cases you actually *do* hook the antenna up right to the tuner, which is usually several components in a “tin can” with a 75Ohm female F-connector on the end which is the input(s) on the back of your TV — a analog TV with a PIP for example has two of those “cans” inside, with the signal from the antenna(or cable) being routed through both. Recently, they has been a product announcement of a Broadband silicon tuner for ATSC in a single chip solution, but up to now, it’s been the “tin-can” approach, just as we’ve had with analog NTSC … Also, What is often referred to here as a ATSC “tuner” is actually much more than that, and is really probably best and more accurately refered to as a ATSC “receiver”. (or ATSC/QAM in the case of those which do both ATSC+QAM digital cable+cablecard) …
#2). If you are “used” to the way analog OTA reception works — what you get signal wise is what you see directly on the screen, and the channel you “tune to” is the channel the station is broadcasting its signal on - —– . But, if you are having reception difficulties with digital and using “autoscan” doesn’t work well for you — Not being able to “see” exactly what is going on with the signal may seem very strange, and therefore it may be necessary for you to learn a little more, as it’s unfortuntely not as intuitive a process of “adjusting the antenna” to get rid of “snow” or “ghosts” as is the case with analog OTA ….. There’s no reason why a “layman” shouldn’t be able to understand it, and it’s not usually necessary to understand ALL of it in order for it to “work”, nor in most cases should it involve many hours of “hassle”, effort, or study ….
To be honest, when you start explaining things, it could turn a lot of people off and just throw their hands up and get HD from cable or satellite…. The average person simply isn’t going to put a HUGE amount of effort into this stuff.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-136336-p-15.html
March 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
To be honest about it, the only reason that I’m still willing to relearn how to get the Over The Air TV channels is because I just can’t see paying the overpriced rates for cable or satellite.
I mean it wasn’t broken, so why’d they go and fix it? An attempted stride towards perfectionism gone haywire, or a plan for the cable providers (both catv and satv) and television manufacturers to make more money?
And bundled into this plan an opportunity for the government to auction off a spectrum or two of frequencies, or as recent papers from government agencies have stated [give them] “to provide police and fire departments with better communications…” WAIT—-Let’s back that up a minute! Could that mean “[make OTA stations as easy to jam and fill with propaganda as cable and satellite transmissions currently are without civilians noticing an increase or decrease of signal quality in the fringe areas, and to prevent reception of a dual signal with a completely different newscast, but otherwise same programming upon the same frequency]“?
It is called The Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 after all.
And it would allow for unnoticeable interruption (jamming) via temporary or permanent take over of a channel without the broadcasters knowledge or cooperation.
Can we say Enhanced Emergency Alert System???
March 20th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Well…. the newer more high priced TV’s “listen” for software updates from the PBS local OTA signal SO hackers or NoSuchAgency elements could use that to shutdown channels in the recievers, the broadcasters would not know about it unless their tv’s at home quick working on just their channels but how hard would it be to profile the staff of a station to know what brands they had at home and exclude those models from the hack list; it would take days before they figgered out somthing was up. By then a emergency situation could be over or advertisers would pull out since that station “must have done something to deserve” being sanctioned by the FCC/big brother…? (just a fictional scenerio but some of the tuners can be hacked, just hasn’t been done yet)
March 20th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
The enticement for me (besides it being no monthly fee after you get the antenna set up with a amp/rotator) is that you get channels that the Dish/DSS will not carry, or won’t let you have (one TV local market only)like ALL the KET channels and 36.2 weather or MyZ TV wsaz.2 & WKYT.2 The Pax Qubo.2 is great for the youn en’s and the Worship channel is a great background channel while working around the house; PLUSS if you have a worked to get those in you have a antenna that is capable of catching signals skipping in from say Cincinnati or even Virgina’s Living Faith TV 44.1 or 53 or 7.1 Beattyvill(a tougher channel than I would have thought to pick up)
Cable may eventually carry these channels but the FCC is not going to mandate it from what I have read. Satellite has HD marketing on the brain so they are gonna eat up extra spectrum with HD channels and not Local OTA choices for the forseeable future since Rupert is betting on all the ponies Demopub and Republicrat he will get what he wants likely.
Cable or sat customers should start insisting that the techs at least offer to hook up and scan in the signals available since they are ALL prone to outages you will at least have a few channels as a backup from OTA sources bypassing the sat or cable boxes…
March 20th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The antenna will have a lot to offer, and I suppose what I have said could have been worded better. Those distant stations in Cincinnati and Virginia is what I’m shooting for, and that’s the reason that I’m building some arrays… They will be dedicated DX’rs only. I will have a multibander up on the tower as well.
I done already know that I’m going to have to go above the tree line with this, so I might as well have a few tuned, dedicated, highly-directional antennas for DX up there too.
The tower and antenna work isn’t all that bad, it brings back some old memories, and is actually fun for some of us. The only thing that aggravates me is having to learn or re-learn how the “theory” has been reapplied to a new technology.
In other words, I know how to modulate an analog source onto a pair of frequencies and get them in sync, but this digital business is a horse of a different breed. Sorta like those genetically hybridized dinosaurs in that Jurassic Park movie.
March 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
(no hold the breath for that coupon?)
Community Broadcasters Association petitions court to order DTV converter halt
http://broadcastengineering.com/newsrooms/community_broadcasters_association_petitions_0328/
The Community Broadcasters Association (CBA) Wednesday asked the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit to order the FCC to halt the distribution and marketing of digital television (DTV) converter boxes without the ability to let viewers watch analog TV.
In filing its petition, the CBA asked the court to order the FCC to enforce the All Channel Receiver Act (ACRA), which it said requires DTV converter boxes to be able to receive “all frequencies allocated by the FCC to television broadcasting.”
While the nation’s full-power TV stations are required under law to cease analog operation and commence digital transmission in February 2009, low-power television (LPTV), Class A and TV translator stations will continue to transmit in analog. Without the ability to receive analog over-the-air (OTA) signals, the converter boxes will effectively cut the stations off from viewers — especially because few LPTV stations are not carried by cable systems, satellite operators or telcos.
The association’s petition comes after months of meetings and correspondence with DTV stakeholders, the FCC and the NTIA. In the petition, the CBA noted that when the FCC ordered all TV sets and other TV receiving devices to include digital tuners, it “emphatically acknowledged the importance of displaying all programming,…[and] held that the ACRA requirement entails not only that all channels be received but also that all formats, including analog and digital, also be received. The FCC said that ‘[t]he ACRA was intended to ensure that the viewing public has access to receivers which are capable of receiving all broadcast signals. Thus, to suggest that the statutory requirements are somehow satisfied simply where a receiver picks up the frequency but is incapable of displaying the signal in a viewable format strikes us as an absurd reading of the ACRA.’”
Despite its “best efforts,” distribution of converter boxes without analog capability has begun, said Greg Herman, CBA VP. “It is unfortunate that in spite of our best efforts, those who simply want to keep pushing illegal converter boxes on the American public have ignored our many warnings and shown contempt and disregard for the over-the-air viewing audience,” he said.
Following the CBA’s court filing, the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) issued a denunciation of the move. “This is an irresponsible lawsuit, as was CBA’s advertising calling the government program a ‘scam,’” said CEA president and CEO Gary Shapiro.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
You know the sad thing about this DTV transition is that everyone is trying to cash in big.
Wireless cable SATV salesmen have been attending seminars and crash courses to become the “local expert” on Digital Television.
From what I’m understanding, in addition to satv dishes and boxes, they will soon be carrying antennas and converters in their line of (what I consider to be overpriced) products.
I’ve also heard talk of cable companies getting in on the bandwagon too.
The ironic thing about this is that you have to certify on the coupon application that you don’t subscribe to any cable or satellite service—Yet the Government is allowing Satellite and Cable Providers to redeem the coupons.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
IF people cash a $49 coupon towards only ONE month of cable or satellite that is just short sided. The Zenith black box at HHGreg or Circuit City had recieved better reviews than others AND it has more of a program guide. I am waiting for my coupons to get one of those. Around here it is not too hard to get about 7channel for free that are not on sat or cable. LIKE KetKY KetED and KetHD plust Qubo, Worship,& IONlife.
THEN there is the 36.2 24-7Weather and the KYT or WSAZ channel but it airs alot of the same stuff as one of the cable channels. ANYWAY these are free channels with no monthy fee that do require a outside antennna and maybe a low noise amp. Lets add up a estimate:
30 feet of pipe: $45
Mid size Antenna $50
75ft digital Cable with ends $~20
Zenith Converter box$60(20 w/coupon)
Lag bolts and pipe brackets for gable end or post $10
$145-185 for 7 to 20 somewhat unreliable digit tt al ch chhha nels plus some snowy analog. BUT NO MONTHLY FEE!
(Unless you get insurance on lightning zapping that old tv and box LOL)
Use Cheep or old vise grips to turn pipe for aiming antenna differnt directions.
(get the thing up to use the analog signals for aiming clues on the least amounts of reflected signal directions.
It is fun to see how many stations you can pull in and on some evenings Cincinatti or Virginia stations skip in for a few minutes when you see the analog skipping in scan for the digital stations.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
There are some sat companies (and cable?) that were hooking up antennas so the viewer could get the local free channels thru their sat box, (like the defunct VOOM)
April 15th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
OH fergot to mention 2 fm traps, ~1.00-$8; yes FM can interfere with channel 6 thru 12 digital(or analog) and others if they overdrive your preamp due to the position of the antennas and how close you are to a FM station as well as how powerful the station is. putting a FM trap before the amp on the antenna lead and between the amp and the powersupply helps. Only one is needed IF you have a adjustable fm trap on the amp. THAT needs adjusted WHILE you can still see what channels are effected in analog but a spectrum analyser might still be needed to insure no harmonics are bleeding in on the different digital channel frequencies. WHEN channel 38 analog shuts down, around here anyway, it may also help pull in some signals as it is so strong it bleeds over into WTVQ 36 on several better amps or cheeper ones that I have tried in different locations.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
DUHHHH!!!! ? New study foresees DTV reception difficulties…More than half of over-the-air (OTA) TV viewers nationwide live in areas where reception of DTV signals will be challenging, according to new research from Centris.
Of the nation’s 17 million OTA TV households, 9.2 million could experience DTV reception problems, Centris said.
The study provides an in-depth look on a national level at the scale of the issue and identifies the top 10 cities in the country that have the most consumers at risk. They include (in descending order beginning with the highest risk):
* New York
* Boston (Manchester)
* Philadelphia
* Los Angeles
* Washington, D.C. (Hagerstown)
* Seattle-Tacoma
* San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
* Minneapolis-St. Paul
* Atlanta
* Cleveland-Akron (Canton)
In February, Centris released a limited study revealing for the first time likely reception gaps. Broadcast industry associations refuted those findings, saying the study’s methodology was flawed.
The new national study reveals “exact figures for the number of at-risk households down to individual census block groups,” said Centris executive VP David Klein. The data reveal that DTV signal coverage will be “significantly more limited than currently anticipated,” he said.
Increased risk depends on the local terrain, distance from towers and the sensitivity of the consumer’s existing home antenna. “Challenging reception” in this context refers to consumers who will receive four or fewer broadcast TV stations if they only have a small or medium omnidirectional rooftop antenna or if they have an indoor antenna.
Centris forecasts that 24 percent of consumers in difficult reception areas who only have an indoor antenna or a small or medium omnidirectional antenna will receive no channels and a further 10 percent will receive only one channel.
For more information, visit http://www.centris.com.
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/study_foresees_dtv_recpetion_0411/
April 16th, 2008 at 4:50 am
I know that sounds like something that I just made up, but it is true. Some Satellite Providers and Cable Companies have jumped on the Digital Converter Bandwagon—-No Kidding!
They are theming it as “A New (or extra) Revenue Opportunity”.
The deal is that the Satellite Providers will advertise as the “Local Expert” on Digital Television, and when called they will come out and try to sell you a satv subscription, of course, but if the person has the coupon, and insists that they just don’t want satellite, they will sell them a digital converter box, install it, and if it doesn’t get very many channels, will try again to sell a basic (local channels only) satv package, and if still refused, offer to sell and install a “digital antenna”.
Cable Companies will be doing the same in areas where they haven’t any TV Cable wires running along the utility poles.
Wait until about the middle of June and look for the advertisements.
I’m still working on my directional arrays, it saves a few $$ to cut and assemble them myself.
Now if it will only dry up so I can concrete my bottom section of tower into the ground.
April 17th, 2008 at 10:37 am
I don’t doubt what you say.
A enterprising retiree I know was providing free cable to his neighbors here in ROWAN county but he told me very recently ” this ain’t gonna be all that great” with reference to DTV after he spent a chunk of change on a flat HDTV.
His vision is going bad so he didn’t need the sharper picture but the dig it t tal tal hic cup up ing is not appriciated. He really groaned when I said the antennas need to be 30+ feet off the ground and away from trees swaying in the breeze and thus reflected signal fluctuations.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Since PBS stations (from what I gather) can program certain Digital Televisions and Converter Boxes, I have to wonder why KET doesn’t apply for a grant of some sorts to provide people in need with a free converter.
They could offer a KET TeleCourse on the digital transition. Those folks who pass the test at the end of the TeleCourse, and meet the requirements for the coupon could be eligible for and awarded a free digital converter box.
Now that would be an example of “Educational Television” truly benefiting the communities in which it serves.
Just a thought there…
May 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Apparently, right now only more expensive tuners in higher-end sets listen to the PBS data stream for the software updates. Still it reaks of hacker back door or the future ablility to shut down certain stations or viewers say if they dont pay their license like they have in England for each tv and even radio sets. SO at some point “free” over the air OTA TV could be a thing of the past.
May 23rd, 2008 at 5:39 am
I received the coupons and went to circut city , got the Zenith box that many recommend;
it works somewhat better than many tuners I have tried;
still has some problems but my antennas are not totally koshier for several threshold signals that are very
watchable in analog. The best features are the guide that shows what is on next after you scan each channel, and you can jump from the guide to that program; wish it had a previous channel button so I could
go back to the channel I was watching when it went to commercial?
Also highly necessary is the signal button for aiming the antenna on a individual channel,
this little black box cost me $23bucks after the coupon (minus the gas to get there)
thinking strongly on getting the walmart Magnavox box with the other coupon to compare them.
The magnavox DVD/VCR combo I had from them went dead after 8weeks but it had a better than average tuner,
the guide was not great and no signal meter for individual channels, I would guess they are very similar tuners in
the coupon eligible box.
This stuff is fun or me but alot o spouses are gonna lose patience with dad the tinkerer me thinks?
May 24th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I fergot this Zenith box (and likely the magnavox) do not have
analog pass thru so you’ll have to get a splitter and that drops
the signal levels 3 &1/2 Db so any digital signals that are at
say “82″ on the antenna will drop below threshold and you’ll
lose them when that happens. On analog ususally 3 1/2 dB drop
just means a bit more snow in the picture but still watchable.
This is why the Community Broadcasters Association is threating
litigation as many signals (2-3000) stations around the country
will still be in analog after 2/17/09 and without a power off pass through
to the analog tv’s those stations are not watchable. I was really ticked
when I found out my whizbang 8vsb 5thgen Zenith box did not pass
the signals on to the TV like a VCR/DVD does with the VCR/TV button
or when turning it off !!! HOW CHEEP is that @#%** circutry .$25?!?!
Sue their pants off!
June 10th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Well I figgered out a workaround for WLEX and ION 29 conflict
They are both on digital channel 39 so I just went into the add channel menu
and added 39.x and whenever one signal or the other is coming in, it
jumps to that station, a lot of the time they interfere with each other or so it
seems since I am guessing using the analog signals for clues to ionospheric skip
conditions.
That will happen with WKRC12 and WYMT57(12) Hazard
AND WKYT(13) W
June 10th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
oops wkyt DTV(13) and WOWK 13 after Feb.17
June 11th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Since we are and will be in a underserved area for DTV me thinks some
govt. grant/welfare for getting some more DTV signals on the air is in order?
Big stations might be putting in some translators for areas like Paintsville,
Morehead, Hazard, Corbin, or where ever there COULD be viewers willng
to put up a small antenna or low noise amped rabbit ears, to get 3-4KET channels
and 3-7 commercial channels for free(around here) fergit community TV
we want escape-ism corporate p.r. infotainment eye candy where everything
is shiny and plastic coated for your protection.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Personally, I enjoy the local community TV station.
Give me the choice between PBS or TV10 and I’ll give you the same answer that
many other people in the area will. I watch more TV10 then I do PBS.
I know of a lot of people who prefer to watch TV10 over the 2 or 3 other channels
they can pull in over their rabbit ear antenna.
I hope they don’t abandon ship and leave us with only "BIGBIRD IN THE MORNING".
June 13th, 2008 at 1:33 am
just got this emai:
http
://broadcastengineering.com/RF/analog-shutdown-nears-antenna-reality-emerges-0609/
new DTV Reception Study Fact Sheet.
The first detail relates to the type of antenna the government assumes the viewer is using. The assumption is that the TVs are connected to an outdoor antenna 30ft above the ground with an electric motor that allows the user to point the antenna toward the desired station.
In its research, Centris found that 75 percent of over-the-air households use indoor antennas on their TVs, and only 13 percent have an outdoor motorized roof-top antenna. In households with indoor antennas, the need for the TV signal to penetrate the premises causes it to be at least between three and 100 times lower in power due to loss.
The second important detail is the digital “cliff effect.” Today, many viewers watch analog signals that are less than ideal, perhaps with minor impairments of noise, Centris said. However, digital signals exhibit a cliff effect so that unless signals are well above levels that many people consider acceptable for analog, the digital signal will not work at all.
Though Centris does validate the government’s recommendation for the required outdoor antenna for most households (see http://www.antennaweb.org), it notes that a variety of conditions in individual households will cause about 10 percent of homes to experience problems even if they use the recommended outdoor antenna.
Centris predicts that more than half of households are located in challenging digital TV reception areas. Two of the three options currently being promoted by the FCC (acquiring new digital TV sets and purchasing government subsidized digital-analog converter boxes) are entirely dependent on receiving digital TV signals through an antenna.
The third option is signing up with a pay service provider.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Wonder where the .gov guys ascertain their information from? Their imaginations i suppose.
First they underestimate the number of antenna users, and now they have over-anticipated
that the majority of antenna viewers consist of people with 30′ high rotor driven antennas.
I’d bet conception of the idea that a few thousand use the clothes hanger antenna would
be beyond their mental abilities.
What these law makers need is one of those little retro 70’s placards to hang on the door
that says "QUIET! GENIUS AT WORK!" while they discuss these issues.
I bet they run out of coupons even if they "think" they have overestimated the need for them.
June 13th, 2008 at 9:06 am
the alternate emph-fah-sasis of ass-u-me
comes to mind for their assssss-certain-ing such things LOL?
June 16th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Govt. program needs more STAMP money? to send out coupons?
More DTV snag ups, and NOwhere does it appear they have done any survey
to see how many folks are waiting for the coupon boxes to improve or the prices
come down, or how many are waiting for their children or tech savvy neigbors to
try it out first and such. I wunder how much the cable and sat industry has lobbied
con-gress to make sure this DTV transition is a mess.
The cheepest converter box I found with pass thru of signal analog or digital is
about $80 plus shipping, the ones in the stores don’t do it.
For about 130 you can get a DVD burner with a tuner that has pass thru but it
is not coupon eligible. IF like me you have some VCRs you need a box with pass through
to get the vcr to work with the tuner box and/or to watch LPTV or any other signals
that will be analog after FEB 2009, I suspect some letter writing will get a delay or
exemptions for analog shut down, get to sending those writs antenna viewers (
especially those that still cant pick up the DTV signals of your favorite full power analog stations)
***TV are viewers unprepared for switch, coupons are running short
About half of the households that could lose television service after the transition to digital broadcasting are still unprepared for the switch, says a new report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO).
The report, released last week, confirms the fear of members of Congress that millions of constituents could find themselves facing a blank television screen next Feb. 17.
On top of that, an administration official admitted to House lawmakers for the first time that more money might be needed to mail out all the $40 government coupons to subsidize converter boxes that some TV owners will need for the February 2009 switchover.
Bernadette McGuire-Rivera, associate director of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), said at a hearing that it was possible the agency “would have to get more money, basically to buy more stamps to send out coupons.”
Nationwide, an estimated 70 million television sets rely on antennas to receive over-the-air analog signals. After analog television is turned off next February, viewers will need a converter box, a digital television, or a pay-television service.
However, it’s not even that simple, because with a converter box — many of which do not have upgradeable software or can pick up low-power stations — viewers may still need a tall outdoor antenna with motorized directionality in certain areas of the country.
“No matter what we do and no matter how many tax dollars we spend, we’re not going to be at a point where there aren’t any effects,” Rep. John Shimkus, R-IL, told the House subcommittee on telecommunications and the Internet last week.
The GAO report found that about 84 percent of consumers were aware of the transition but that many do not know what to do. More than half the 1010 people surveyed said they knew about the government program to get coupons to help pay for converter boxes that allow analog TVs to receive digital broadcasts, but two-thirds of the people who want a coupon didn’t know how to get one.
More than 3 million converter boxes have been redeemed. However, many members of the House subcommittee expressed concern that converter box coupons may expire before consumers can find a box they can afford or that has the features they want.
The $40 coupons are available through a $1.5 billion program run by the NTIA. But the coupons expire after 90 days, and consumers are currently not eligible to reapply.
The GAO report also found that only a few converter boxes currently available will allow TVs to continue receiving analog signals from low-powered stations, which typically air local broadcasts and are not required to make the transition to digital. Most of the boxes are also not software upgradeable.
***(posted under FAIR USE AND national emergency fcc provisions:)
http://broadcastengineering.com/news/viewers-unprepared-switch-coupons-short-0616/
About 800,000 coupons — the first batch to be sent to TV viewers — recently expired. Less than half — 42 percent — were redeemed, according to the NTIA. The agency said it would decide whether to reissue the coupons after more detailed redemption rates were available next month.
The NTIA issued a statement after the hearing saying it “has no plans to ask Congress for any additional funds.”
Rep. John D. Dingell, D-MI, chairman of the committee, said he’s worried that all the attention being given to the Wilmington, NC, DTV experiment will make it an unrealistic test case.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Funny how it feels sitting surrounded by wires, cables, and electronic devices when you hear the roar of high voltage during a lightning storm. Everything goes silent as a loud zerr-zerr-pop! drowning out the sound of thunder apparently because I anticipated hearing the BOOM of an explosion, but instead only a sound reminiscent from an old Frankenstein movie.
I think I might be using rabbit ears until I figure out a good grounding plan.
I don’t know what was hit, but whatever was struck is nearby, a grounding cable perhaps?
Only damage I have found so far is a damaged workstation networked with this one.
Most likely a fuse or power supply (maybe only a cap if I’m lucky) is in order now.
Good thing I didn’t follow through with the last minute grounding effort that come to mind
this morning.
Loop, coil, ground on the lead, base, foot, mast on the tower come to mind.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I lost a caller ID and a sat, LNB it looks like, so far.
WLEX said only MSU got wind damage HAAAAAA!
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
DTV looks to kill antenna "free" tv as it shaves more audience:
…
http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/dtv-kill-over-air-television-0619/
The DTV transition will decimate the over-the-air (OTA) television audience in the United States, potentially leaving as few as 4 million to 5 million households relying solely on off-air reception, and in the process raise some uncomfortable questions for the nation’s TV broadcasters, according to an assessment by Centris’ senior vice president Barry Goodstadt.
Speaking at the Promax/BDA conference in New York City June 18, Goodstadt contended the nation’s transition to digital television transmission will likely have the unintended consequence of making viewers re-evaluate how they receive local television. When they do, up to 13 million households may scrap off-air reception in favor of cable, satellite or telco TV, Goodstadt predicted.
The nation’s broadcasters have long dealt with shrinking OTA audiences. For instance, the number of OTA households has fallen from 23.9 million in the first quarter of 2004 to 16.9 million in the first quarter of this year, according to estimates made by Centris. But the potential rapid decline triggered by the DTV transition is unprecedented.
In arriving at his conclusions, Goodstadt relied on three specific data points. First, as of February, 62 percent of OTA households said they plan to buy a DTV converter box to continue using their existing sets. If the remaining 38 percent abandon OTA, the number of OTA households remaining after the transition would be about 10.5 million.
Second, the decision to buy a converter is based on it being the lowest-cost alternative. However with the rollout of budget, or lifeline, TV packages from cable operators priced between $10 and $14 per month, the economic pain threshold has been lowered for choosing pay TV.
Third, Centris research indicates 54 percent of OTA households may have to upgrade their antennas to continue receiving an off-air signal post transition. This, too, is likely to take a toll on the number of viewers who choose to continue relying on OTA TV, he said.
Further bolstering his case was Centris/Omnibus research showing 19 percent of new cable subscribers last year were OTA households and 37 percent of new satellite TV subscribers formerly relied on terrestrial off-air reception, Goodstadt said. Even if the need to upgrade home antennas had no effect, the number of OTA households will fall to between 8 million and 9 million based on consumer choice data, he added.
According to Goodstadt, as over-the-air audiences erode and approach zero, broadcasters, as well as others affected, will have to answer some important strategic questions, such as:
* What is the value of a broadcasting infrastructure (towers, transmitters) now aimed at a diminished number of OTA viewers? What will this do to stock prices?
* To what extent does this change the broadcaster’s business model, or does it? Will new OTA TVs be cell phones and iPods?
* What will a designated market area (DMA) mean when the number of OTAs approaches zero?
* What is the meaning of “must carry” in a diminished OTA environment?
* What does this mean for retransmission agreements?
* What are the implications for advertising revenue?
* What will government regulators think about rights to broadcast spectrum that is being used to reach a tiny or non-existent population of OTA consumers?
Speaking on the phone with RF Update after the presentation, Goodstadt said that when he researched and prepared his presentation, he was surprised by the massive scale of the potential OTA household decline. Regardless of DTV’s better picture, elimination of multipath ghosting and higher resolution in the case of HD, the digital television transition will significantly decrease the number of OTA households, he said.
“The whole notion of a revival of OTA broadcast thanks to digital transmission is not playing out as some expected, unless the new OTA TV model is mobile,” he said. “I can see that happening with an attractive demographic, those under 35.”
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Most people who I know that use antenna doesn’t even have TV cable in the area
to subscribe to, even if they wanted it, which they don’t.
Sure there’s satellite (wireless cable) services that they could subscribe to, but they
just don’t want a subscription service or another bill to pay.
I’m in an area that is served primarily by cable, but I don’t want or need the extra bill.
Looks like the NAB would just tell them to take the shutoff date and shove it.
If people can receive the digital signal and get a few additional channels, then fine.
But they need to leave the analog stations up too.
June 24th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Well there needs to be a bunch of letter writing as EVERY antenna viewer that does not want to lose even one current analog channel needs to get their D.C. political ear and the next presidents and the FCC’s. I kinda suspect that the insider plan is to keep analog alive for several more years and it was planned to push it into the next admistration so they get the blame for the problems. One thing gets some folks really mad is if their "shows" get disturbed.
TV has many of the same symptoms of drug addiction when it is withdrawn, watch out politicos!
(in Italy about 6years agot families were PAID to not watch TV,computers and video games
and half dropped out of the study out of over 1000 households if memory serves, the ones that could go the 6 weeks showed a 30% increase in melatonin/sleep hormone and children get to bed earlier if no TV past 6:30pm, try that in ameriKa?
/body tempeture regulation hormones and a whole chane of endocrine effects are seen when melatonin is out of whack. By design wizards?
June 25th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Letter writing and emails could be somewhat effective BUT what ever happens I suspect it was planned this way for various reasons. I had a few minuets to play with someones flat panel "HDTV" today, there was a preponderance of digital blur and noise motion in the background of the images.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_blur
Of course no signal in the middle of the day is in true 1080i or p HDTV and all the signals I viewed looked best when shrunk to the 4:3 "proper" size. If zoomed or streeched to fit the screen other weird digital affects are seen like vibrating lines or what I call water lines, lines that appear like water stains in a double pane window refracting mainly horizontal picture elements.
By far the best way, I think, to view all TV is still a CRT (short of some wiz bang $7000 plazma 50" 240mhz super HD display like found in a gubernment conference room LOL)
For those that want to use all their old vcr and dvd burners and such just get a converter box and a good used analog TV or use your current one. Even the CRTs glass tube newer tv’s Upconvert everything to the display so nothing looks as good in my opinion.
The engineers that developed DTV 8VSB were likely using analog TVs to view the signals and it is no surprise to me that right now, it is still the sharpest, fastest, most hassle free way to view over the air OTA digital TV.
SAD thing is likely that most folks don’t have sharp enough vision to even see these digital blur artifacts, or they put up with it cause the blew all the money the wife would let them on the last TV they bought. Boy I hope my 2003 27" analog Zenith lasts me another 15yrs(as well as the remote)
June 26th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Time Warner QAM (free) Digital Channels For Morehead
for those that want to scan in the "digital/cable" menu selection on
their newer TVs with digital-analog tuners.:
(I think this is the list for the "Broadcast basic/12.95+tax+tax budget cable)
wkyt analog ch#2 digital#71-1 hd#88-1
wsaz analog ch#3 digital#77-4
wdky analog ch#4 digital#71-3 hd#105-9
w10bm analog ch#5 digital#77-2
local access analog ch#6 digital#77-1
wqcw analog ch#7 digital#77-8
wchs analog ch#8 digital#77-5
wlex analog ch#9 digital#71-5
wtvq analog ch#10 digital#71-6
wvah analog ch#11 digital#77-6
wowk analog ch#13 digital#77-7
ket2 analog ch#15 digital#71-8,83-8
wpbo analog ch#17 digital#77-10
wtsf analog ch#18 digital#77-9
ket1 analog ch#19 digital ch#71-9,83-7
ket3 digital ch #83-1 (in hd at night)
ket4 digital ch#83-9
espn analog ch#24 digital hd ch#92-1
espn2 analog ch#25 digital hd ch# 114-1
tbs analog ch#45 digital hd ch#115-1
tnt analog ch#46 digital hd ch#109-3
wljc analog ch#98 digital ch#71-2
cwkyt analog ch#99 digital ch#71-10
discovery hd theater digital hd ch# 104-1
toon disney digital ch#106-5
all of the music choice channels are available also
starting at ch#108-1 thru 108-48
as of June 25 208
June 30th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Anyone else have trouble with these DTV tuners losing channels from
the memory? I have lost WYMT57(DT12) from memory on more than one
of the tuners I have tried the VOOM someone gave me did this repeatedly
and now the latest zenith set top box has lost the data.
I have added in other channels so perhaps this deletes the least recieved or
oldest or least watched channel when you add signals and the memory
capacity of the box is exceeded?
July 7th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Well I can see that I’m going to loose every single channel except Morehead channels.
I’m currently receiving good analog signals from Lexington, but the digital channels just
won’t scan in — even though analog signals manage to make it through the converter.
Oh well, at least I’ll still have 7, 10 and 38.1-38.4
July 7th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
I would be satisfied with just the Morehead channels as little as I watch,
but others in the house want more channels.
What — Are these "digital" channels transmitting with less power then
their parent analog stations? Will they boost power after analog blackout?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:06 am
If it helps I’m using one of those magnetovox souper smallwart specials with the super slow signal strength meter that seems to have and download the signal strength level at 14.4k or slower.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:03 am
Oh Kay Now… After lowering my antenna to ~5ft above the ground I’m getting 36.1 & 36.2
24/7 Weather on 36.2 A locally oriented weather channel.
Maybe this isn’t going to be so bad after all. Just have to find the sweet spots and keep
the little ones away from the antennas.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Seems I am lucky to pull in 36 according to the antennaweb.org link posted above.
And I fall into that 10% range. I had a killer analog signal on 36 when the antenna
was about 45 foot up but no digital, so I started lowering it and watched the analog
signals degrade as I got closer to the tree line. So I took it just about to the ground
shooting under a nearby tree line but aiming over a distant tree line.
Now I have a very weak analog signal but more digital signals then I had before.
I walked all over the top of the house yesterday afternoon with a tripod, and ended up
taking it down and walking the ground during the early hours this morning.
Hopefully sunspots don’t mess with the few sweet spots that I found.
This beats all I ever seen and I doubt that many technicians would believe it.
Now if those converters only had a built in switch controller…
Oh well, at least I followed through with my plan to build more then one array.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Do you have fresh digital ready coax at least RG6? IF you are using a balun/matching transformer at the antenna that can drop the signal drastically. Does your preamp switch the twin-lead 300ohm to 75ohm coax? Is there a variable adjustment on the amp/fm trap.
The signal meter on most boxes I have seen is actually a combo signal meter for the pilot spike and a signal quality meter like those on satellite recievers. IF you have trees or rocks or metal roofs or cars less than say 50feet from the antenna then all of these can bounce the signal and cause a regflected signal path that messes with the signal quality.
A newer 75ohm output antenna directly into a coax in and out preamp mounted 12" from the antenna(s) will help the signal quality. Really low noise amps of less than 20db are what is being recommend these days and the braid on the coax for digital is woven different to better pass the broad 6mhz wide signals.
The EFP -efective radiated power of a "full power" DTV station is extremely lower, with WTVQ
analog visual was just shy of 1million watts. digital is 30-50,ooo watts I think and no, unless the FCC lets them they will not increase power. That is one of the pluses on DTV , a really much lower power consumption bill.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Alot of folks have no clue on how many channels they will lose because they haven’t even tried to play with a tuner box or if they bought a SDTV & cannot tell if they are watching DTV or Analog because some automatically switches to the analog signal if the DTV isn’t comming in. I talked with a guy from Morgan co. about 2 years ago and he referred to WYMT doing this, he did not realise his TV was jumping back to analog when the DTV went "no signal" on him. I tried to explain about the amps and the 30ft antenna height and rotators low noise preamps "boosters" but his eyes glazed over; he will likely get a dish or a bootlegged/hacked FTA setup I’ll bet along with a bunch of other that want more than ION and KET and whatevery few analogs might stay on air?
July 8th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Hey on your 36.1.2 problems there was some sorta weird atmospheric thing going on since about last friday, I had all sorts of co-channel on analog signals and digital go unreliable except for wsaz (23 digital) (and ket Ion locals), some were affected some were not.
Ionospheric skip or solar? I don’t know but it seems better at differet times of day. SO
you might try that antenna up at say 35ft, perhaps topping out a threating pine tree nearby and putting the pipe up as high as your common sence dictates? ground it good.
A remote rotator really helps.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Ok, why all the worrying and obsessing over all the channels that you are or are not going to get and how high or what possession an antenna is in, etc., when you can just give yourself one less thing to worry about and pay about $45 a month for cable? That just a tad over a dollar a day. Don’t kick the cat to the curb, just asking why all the fuss over all this. It appears you guys are spending at least that much in materials and most importantly time and worry over it. My favorite channels are all the upper ones like CNN, HGTV, A&E, and LIfetime. So, I could build an antenna 50 foot high on a mountain and still not get them. Just bite the bullet and pay the cable company or is it more of a ‘principal of the matter’ thing?
July 8th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Well I dropped the old lead-in wire this time around and went with (new) 75 ohm coax
using a stock 50 to 75 ohm balun with the home-brew antenna. (was too lazy to wind)
But at the higher altitude the antenna was pulling in better analog signals then I have
received in years (the digital isn’t much sharper).
Trouble is, and reason is beyond me, was that the digital signals didn’t seem to be
hitting the antenna.
Now that I have lowered it to ~5ft above ground level and walked it around, I get the
digital signals real well, but the analog signals are weak and snowy (like a blizzard).
I don’t understand it, but the propogation over here has always been weird anyways.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Kat, it is more of a hobby. But I honestly can’t afford the extra bill.
Then there is the principal of the thing too.
And if I spend that much in materials once, then it’s only a one time bill
to pay for years of free TV.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Actually on 2nd look it’s RG59 but the antenna has been balanced
for 75 Ohm with a new old stock balun that I had on hand. 36.1&.2
was coming in good last night and this morning but the analog was
lacking. BUT, and I can’t explain why, but when the picture from the
analog signal was comparable to the picture from the digital signal
the digital just wouldn’t scan in. ??? never thought it possible.
This box does have both signal strength and a peak indicator, but it
is rather slow — nothing like trying to home in on a satellite.
It’s just way to slow for aiming the antenna. So I had to play it by ear.
I mean literally cranking up the volume and listening for sound after
allowing for the 3-5 second delay before repositioning.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
May I ask what you mean by
"worrying and obsessing over all the channels that you are or are not going to get"?
I’m getting the channels, but something weird is going on with the radio propagation.
I should be able to adjust my antenna for the best analog signal and get darn
good digital reception.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Hun? I’m confused. What’s radio got to do with TV? I honestly didn’t know anyone listened to the radio anymore. Folks today are all about VISUAL, even our music has to come with a video to make it interesting. What’s up with the analog? It’s so ‘yesterday’. I know it’s suppose to be more reliable but everything is digital now, it’s 2008! It’s just that you and RVC are the only ones discussing this on here so it appears that it is something that is only interesting to the two of you. That’s all.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Yeah, well, leave us alone then, go post on your own stuff;
There are channels not on satellite or cable that are picked up
on antenna, AND some folks are in situations where they cannot
get Satellite (neighbor’s trees) or Cable (too far out and sparcely populated)
All signals are radio waves, the cable signal is radio waves, on a cable,
satellite is radio waves (microwaves, oh that too is a radio wave.)
A TV antenna can be used to pull in FM radio stations from a long way off
SOME folks even hook up a scanner RADIO to them to pull in
emergency frequencies and buss radio from other counties or even Lexington
Huntinton, Cincinatti et ceterahhh ad nasium
Me thinks thou doth protest too much.
IF you think no one eles reads what we post, why, based on fellow posts
do you think anyone reads your stuff?
My tower for DTV has several other potential uses:
a neighbor hood cable system head end, neighborhood wi-fi,
ham, shortwave RADIO (yep) heck maybe even a cell repeater node
or a "pirate low power FM aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggguh (jus kidding)
since I have crappy service as do my neighbors for over a mile every direction
and traffic on the main road has no cell service for over 2-3mile section.
Is not this the point of having topical threads to stay on the topics?
July 9th, 2008 at 12:13 am
the balun is dropping the signal somthing like 3 to 7 db and with digital that can be enough to drop below the cliff of the all or nothing signal.
IF you have extra fittings this might be fun, pull off the balun and
twist up the shield into a lead that can be clamped under the connector nuts ont
the antenna, strip back enough o the jackt to do this and leave enough center conductor
to wrap around the other connector. Obviously take care that non of the stray shield wires
touch any other metal on the antenna and the foam insulation should shield the center conductor. Now see if you get a better signal with a "unbalenced" connection …
No? try fliping the polarity of the connections to the other wingnuts, If there is still nothing
replace the end connector and look for anything that could cause spirrous emmisions somehow
getting into the amp or tuner. I see all kinds of EMF static getting into my analog signals from my computer that is 6-8feet away from my nicer Zenith set. All the fittings are good.
As I figgure it the antenna that is over 25feet away is picking up the emf radiating from inside my living room. Mostly on channels 2-6. Some days I see alot of elecrical arc tracer bullets from the AC service all the way up to channel 36. Digital seems affected by this somewhat
I suspect. NOW what will happen when the Electric companies start the ultrawideband datacasting over powerlines that is said to kill shortwave radio? I will have to cause some interference on DTV? Especially in weak signal areas.
July 9th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I suspect your amplifier is not a pre-amp (booster in the vernacular)
but a common 10db line amp? Those are real high noise factor and won’t really
help preserve digital to the set or tuner.
The winguard or blonder toungue or other nice brand name pre amps with
diode burnout protection are worth the 60-80bucks for the low noise
specs that have been built in. Don’t be disappointed with the lower gain
ratings of say 18db as the low noise/distortion is more important for reliable
DTV reception. No amp can make up for a antenna that is too small.
(or a signal too weak) I suspect you know most of this, others may not.
July 9th, 2008 at 12:36 am
I can turn off my computer and see several sets of lines disappear from WSAZ analog up through WVAH 11 on some days. THis might affect WKYT (on 13DTV) or Hazard on 12
Beattyvill on 7 or for now WDKY on 4 (moving to 46 in Feb 09?)
July 9th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Kat,
ANALOG IS A MORE RELIABLE SIGNAL (to put it simply even if you don’t read the rest.)
Your TV is a radio receiver. You can’t get a single TV station without radio signals.
It doesn’t matter if your hooked up to cable, the cable only pipes in radio signals.
The picture on your TV is on AM and the sound on FM (FM sound carrier at least for now).
Soon, most every TV broadcast is going to be in digital format, which means your TV will
still receive radio waves, but people who can’t get cable and don’t want satellite will have
to have a set top box similar to a satellite box (too similar if you ask me).
Many people who have been happy with that snowy picture will no longer be able to
watch television without making some changes — which could be expensive.
TV will still be broadcast over radio signals, but those new digital signals are less
powerful then the old analog signals are and this makes them a pain to receive.
On the up-side, you can get 2, 3, or 4 channels over one station.
KET has 4 stations on the same channel, but folks only get 2 of them over cable,
and those other two KET channels seem to be the better of the four so far.
Channel 36.2 is a combo Weather Channel / Headline News channel for free.
And contrary to what you think I have invested, I still haven’t crossed past the double digit
mark, since I have been making my own antennas from recyclable materials that I have
laying about the house and some boxes of surplus parts that people have given me
over the years.
The most money I spent on TV this year has been buying a linear LNB to work with a
FTA satellite box. The satellite box was given to me for parts, but I got to looking inside
of it and found only one part was bad (and I have a box full of those diodes) my repair
wasn’t factory surface mount, but the same value, so it stands out on the board.
If you count the cost of the LNB, then yes I have crossed into the triple digit$.
But I count FTA expenses separate from OTA DTV, just like I count shortwave radio
expenses (usually ~10$/yr) separately — even though they’re all forms of communication.
But if I group it all together, I would have to include telephone, internet, 2-way radio,
micro-broadcasting, Uh… just kidding about the micro broadcasting, haint done that in years.
I do intend to spend a little on repairing my old 10′ C-band dish as it will need a new
LNB and a new positioner, or just save up and buy a good used 8-10′ dish.
Preferably one that doesn’t have the fiberglass over the mesh (wind got my old one).
July 9th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Thanks Tech, I will try an unbalanced line but it might be a few days before I can get to this.
You was right about the reflected signal. The signals were reflecting off my car, and when
I moved it, I lost everything except for KET .1-.4
I’m going back to rabbit ears for a few days while I get ready for another climb.
It’s not fun to have a young mind and an old body that won’t cooperate.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:26 am
I do have some of the better amps somewhere in a box out in the shed
if it wasn’t one of the boxes that was accidentally hauled to the landfill.
And somewhere I should have an old cable front end that come from a
surplus auction over at South Shore back years ago, or did it come in a
box from University Surplus. But it would be useless before long without
a bunch of converters to run into it, or some channels could consist of
programmable DVD carousels loaded with stuff that has fallen into the
public domain and some locally produced programs I suppose.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:27 am
To touch on the subject of radio just a little more;
I enjoy listening to shortwave every chance that I get.
Especially when I can find some of the good old shows like Gunsmoke,
Blondie, Jack Benny, The Shadow, Mystery Theater, Inner Sanctum, etc…
I still have the ability to visualize the scenes in my mind as I listen, a thing of the past I guess.
Radio is about as close as you can get to a good book that pulls you so far into the story
that you feel as if you have become a part of it.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:41 am
I stand corrected. You guys do have a separate ‘thread’ for this topic and I failed to realize that. Please carry on with your NightlyTech support blog and EXCUUUUUSE me for treading into a territory I know nothing about.
July 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
We could easily log on to a thread out of lexington or elewhair but these hills do have unique reception issues don’t they?
July 9th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I have heard that up to 8 Standard definition DTV signals in theory/eventually will or could be carried/encoded on one 8vsb transmitter, so the potential is there for in effect
a wide area wireless "cable tv" like mutichannel over the air OTA set up.
with just a double dipole non directional x-antenna local low power
translators could bring in and repeat the distant full power stations
sorta like the old CATV community antenna TV systems did orignally back
into the late 60’s early 1970s. Problem is the business models for TV
has fell apart as the average age of viewers is now over 50years of age
and advertisers say that is no longer a desirable demographic profile for
marketing to, so look for FCC petitions for relaxing ownership rules so that
larger broadcast groups of stations can be owned by one entity.
I suspect after the coupon program ends there will magically become available
the uber-9thgeneration chipset tuners built into DVR/DVD burners that will have all the
transistors for the equalisers and filters to reject out of phase reflected signals.
You have to know the military has had such circuits over 10years -20years ago when their digital paradyme was financed by the taxpayers.
I have seen combo FTA 8vsb boxes out there for $300 but that puts a lot of eggs in one box to get zapped by static or lightning.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
More people then I thought having trouble getting a signal on that digital box.
I was out pricing antennas today and can’t find anything but overpriced junk.
Might have to do a pictorial on building a multiple bay chickenwire/bowtie/lexington
type antenna — should be an easy enough project. Only trouble will be finding a
source for good quality but cheap amps.
Heck, I talked to people from here and a few other counties today and they all
live in the fringe areas where analog is watchable but the converter box wont work.
One person I spoke with even has a rather high tower setup pulling in good analog
but not a single digital station. Most said they’d considered satellite, but the dishman
said he couldn’t catch a bird at their location.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:37 am
They all need to write their congress/rep/senate/FCC/Pres. Candidates to
make sure it is known to them their situations, I.E. no cable, sat is difficult or not possible
no DTV and only analog receptions.
You need a channel 13 antenna to get the 3WKYT DTV feeds the
8bay dipole UHF likely will not get that in or WYMT or Beattyville 7DTV
With a rotator 23WSAZ will come in alot of evenings as will WOWK but
again they are supposed to go back to 13for DTV so "?" on how that will
affect WKYT DTV
I do suspect there are easy basic fixes (that require some money)
for many of these folks antennas like newer low noise/lower gain
pre-amps, relocation of tower/pipe, proper newer coax RG-6 digital
or RG-11 for runs over say 200ft. to a hill or tower.
Getting a Rotator is just about as important as anything else so that
a evening can be spent aiming around for different signals.
My experience is that once a signal is scanned it
(and the box keeps it in memory) it is easier to get it to tune in
when a marginal signal is available.
It can be frustrating especially for others in the household that are DTV
resistant/(will only watch the analog because the digital hiccups or locks up.)
My amp and antennas are newer but not 75ohm, that too supposedly
can be a problem when using short runs of twin lead over to the pre-amp
inputs (I have separate UHF and VHF antenna inputs)
Allows for aiming the two in the slightly different directions to get all the Lexington
channels at the same time without nudging the rotor.
For about $70 a remote controlled rotator with channel memory assignments is
worth the extra money.
I bet you will see these offered in a package deal soon.
A pipe with rotor, preamp & all band antenna & coax deal as a kit for
say $119 for a medium to fringe range set up.
Some should have a top bushing with guys attached to prevent
wind waggle.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I noticed that all the new (read "junk") antennas that I found yesterday had a 40 mile rating,
and they are being marketed as "Digital Antennas", selling for ~$100.
A lower priced unit supposedly has a 40-50db gain amp built in, but I still don’t see it working
in this area unless your on a mountain top, but it runs for ~$60.
All fancy looking junk from what I gather, even though the ~$100 model looks impressive with
its gold plating and (C - shaped) mesh reflector on the back (I almost wanted to try one), but
it lacks the amp… a little too much for me to pay and not get a amp with the package.
The local rathut might have the better prices locally ~$59 for the antenna, ~another $59 for
the amp, and I didn’t price the rotor, but still better prices for what looks like a better antenna.
July 11th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Hope this can help out(not spam):
Research starting point on preamps rotors et cetera
http
://www.
solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=Pre-Amplifiers
rotators (you can use heavy outdoor phone line over 22guage 3or 4conductor for long distances for wire)
http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=Antenna%20Rotators
quality antennas (I found my 8bay a bit cheeper elsewhere)
http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=TV%20Antennas
(Big4 Lumber used to carry or order channelmaster antennas)
Cheeper satellite parts C-band digital or FTA experimental stuff
http://
http://www.
global-cm.net/LNB.html
July 11th, 2008 at 10:55 am
last post awaiting moderation on equipment check these guys for info and prices to start, get the part numbers and go searching for
cheeper prices/shipping all over the place
rotators (you can use heavy outdoor phone line over 22guage 3or 4conductor for long distances for wire)
http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=Antenna%20Rotators
July 11th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
OK, right now looks like 24 peak on channels 36.1, 36.2, and 28 peak on 18.1
those channels wont scan in during the day.
38.1, 38.2, 38.3, & 38.4 are peaking at 76, but I’m pointed opposite the tower, so
that 78 is making it through the rear rejector i guess.
Good Links up above! I will definitely need an amp where I’m at.
But I might try and tweak the peak, any idea what peak numbers I will need to get
decent reception during the daytime hours?
July 12th, 2008 at 10:51 am
I will have to look on my magnavox box to see what readings I get
( that is what you are using right?)
The 8bay UHF only is psuedo non directional with a 100′ wide reception lobe
similar designs have some of the refector cross wire cut out, I have a 4bay
I am gonna try that on to see if there is any difference, I will try that soon and
post it as those can be half price of the "newer" 4 or 8 bay "cat wisker"/"chicken wire"/"Lexington antenna"(Lexington minus KYT-DTV that is)
Friday morning was a horribily bad day for ionospheric skip BUT I scanned in 5 new channels from Blueridge PBS to some other 13 from western VA and WVVA DTV 6 was comming in.
SO I lost WOWK PSIP data from memory when that happened, AT SOME POINT stations will have to abandon their old channel number identity and use call letters only as it confuses the tuners memory when 2 different stations on 2 different DTV channel use the same "analog" identity channel.
July 12th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I have one of those Magnetovoxes as we would have called them in the 70s.
Remember all those "cool names" folks used to come up with for things in the
early 70s?… I miss those days.
But Yeah… Its a Magnavox (WalMart special).
I might swap the coax with some good old leadin wire before I start moving
the beams around between a "V" of two power lines (where I get better reception).
Just going to keep it away from those lines for now and try different wire and an
amp or something before I resort to moving it in between those electric wires.
July 12th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
I also switched back to my old antenna yesterday…
Here’s a picture:
A UHF/VHF combo, but it’s at least 30 years old.
I pulled it apart and sanded the connectors nice and clean, then put it
about 35 foot up in the air.
I might need to do some tree trimming, but I think I’m just above the tree line.
Amp is likely what I need or set that 40′ of tower up and run ~20′ mast up from it.
Note: Analog is snowy as heck, but at least I get some digital at night.
July 12th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I gave up on homebrew antennas for the meanwhile.
Was getting crystal clear analog pictures but digital was next to nothing.
36 digital would come in on over the homebrew IF I lowered it down to around 5′,
but it had a serious case of the burps.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Well — OK — I AM getting those digital signals during daylight…
(Discovered the little ones had moved the antenna on me.)
Still just KET .1-.4 , 36.1-36.2 & 18.1
I am still considering throwing the tower back up to see if I can pull in
the ION channel from over in Menniffe (has 4 channels if I can pull it in)
July 13th, 2008 at 2:28 am
(required voluntary compliance);
In response to your question:
"Anyone else have trouble with these DTV tuners losing channels from the memory?"
I just lost 36.2 from the memory of a Magnavox TB100MW9.
Weather conditions seem to have knocked digital signals way down tonight/this morning.
I’m only getting a peak of 17 on 18.1 and have lost signal for 36.1 altogether.
July 13th, 2008 at 3:32 am
36.2 just undeleted itself from my box, so I guess the answer is technically no,
that I haven’t lost any channels from the memory, even though it was missing
from the channel list for a couple of hours.
Don’t know what’s up with that.
July 13th, 2008 at 7:21 am
That’s good to know nighthawk. I didn’t pay attention to what thread it was on when I read your post. At there is something know one can blame me for! LOL
July 13th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I am watching TVQ with 15-17 steady signal on the Magnavox meter when I hit the display button, ION and KET are in the range of 70. with KET not steady all the time probably due to reflected signal flux or wind in the trees.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:35 am
That pictured antenna is way too small for this fringe area
July 13th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Kinda surprised you get anything more than local stuff with that, you must be in a ideal location for Antenna TV, you just need some decent equipment, antennas for around here are gonna have more than twice the reflector elements of that antenna; making all the elements true and straight might help some, and all the connections between the truss and the bridge wires need cleaned, make sure none of those criss crossing bridge wires are able to touch each other by using some Styrofoam spacers or even non-conductive closepins, (More expensive antennas come with those plastic spacers. IF a element is shorting out, on analog you will sometimes see a zap almost like lignting and it usually occurs with some wind so alot of folks will think just that, that it is the approaching storm but it is actually the antennas conneting rods or wires rubbing together and changing the impedence and shorting out some of the elements momentarily. Obviously this will freeze or lock up a digital signal and could eventually result in diode burnout of a preamp.
July 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I would say that the antenna is the MOST important component you can buy.
IF you cannot afford a $60-80preamp "booster" (not a line amp)
that is very low noise and distortion you would be better off spending $150
on a new 10ft long 110element 75ohm antenna & some brand new RG6 digital
coax that is rated for lowloss antenna use.
You can make your own horseshoe shaped low loss coax balun for 300ohm antennas
but you still lose 1.5 to 3db of signal minimum at the antenna before the preamp (or tuner)
so that is enough to null out some weak signals on those evenings when
scanning around for that skip-in channel from VA or OH or Louisville and such.
For me that is the really fun part of antenna viewing, getting to watch some station from
elsewhere when it skips in on the ionosphere of course it is a trade off as the
locals can be lost on clear evenings or mornings when some other distant channel on the same channel cancels out a local. With digital you cannot see this as it happens it just locks up and unless you scann for the new PSIP data alot of recievers will just say "no signal"
The solution on these rare occasions is to go in to the menu and ad the raw DTV RF channel, for example for WLEX add 39 to your ad/remove list. when flipping up through the channels it will jump back to 18 if you pause long enough for the tuner to lock in the PSIP data but if some other 39 signal is there say ion29 from WVA then it jumps to 29.
I think there is some software glitch that deletes the analog designation channel from memory if other PSIP data is detected so if you have the RFDTV frequency channel in the list the tuner will scan in whatever it picks up on that DTV freq. Use the favorites menu to avoid flipping thru all the extra channels you will have to ad to the add/delete list inorder to do this.
After a while you will become familiar with the types of skip- channels you can expect with clear weather, spring and fall et cetera. All this is gonna be in flux too as analog shuts down and DTVs go to full or more power and more? stations and translators go on the air.
July 13th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Here’s a picture for those who may be looking for DTV information here.
The Preamp similar to the one shown on the bottom of the picture is what you need.
Stay Away — From Those Inline Amps (at the top of the photo)!
The only thing those little inline amps do is amplify electrical noise and interference.
I’ve known this for more years then I care to admit, but people who are new to this might
be able to use the simple illustration for reference while shopping for equipment.
July 13th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
So do you think the antenna would be more effective if I add ~30 or 40 foot of tower
and let it stand on 15-20 foot of mast above the tower?
Or should I try the preamp first — or just get an antenna with more elements (~$150)?
[I think I seen one of those at Lowes for ~$25 less. RatHut & SmalWart has only junk]
If I leave it as is, height wise, and upgrade antenna and add preamp I’m looking at
sinking ~$200 into something that might or might not help me get any more channels.
I already have the tower, but MAN!–That stuff is Heavy (Commercial-Type) Iron.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
What on earth has happened to network Television?
Do people actually enjoy what’s on 36 and 18 during "Prime Time" Sunday?
On channel 18.1 there is some kind of cheap GONG SHOW ripoff or something
called "America’s Got Talent".
Channel 36.1 has a show that looks like it was inspired by "TIM’s TOOL TIME"
from that "Home Improvements" show. I think it’s called "Extreme Makeover".
What is the name of that movie I seen where those people were frozen by the
government and forgot about, to be accidentally awaken hundreds of years later?
I feel like I’m living that movie!
Local Television Is Better Television if you ask me… But others in the house want more.